It blows my mind that any person who is in the middle class would want to be a republican. You regurgitate whatever you heard on Fox News about Obama, but when it comes down to it, he is trying to help people like us…that is if you guys are middle class people. But I guess everybody on this board is a millionaire. The proof is in the pudding (or policies in this case). Most republicans want to get rid of regulations, continue tax breaks for big businesses and the wealthy, and cut programs like medicare. How in the world can any middle class person believe that the republican party is looking out for their best interest? I hear everybody bashing Obamacare, but never say anything about the same program that was successful when Mitt Romney was gov. Obamacare or the Affordable Care Act was patterned after what Mitt Romney did in Massachusetts to make healthcare more affordable. Who doesn't want more affordable healthcare. We already pay taxes so that when people who don't have insurance get seen when they go to the emergency room. Why is that you guys hate the President so much? He is not a Socialist, and never will our capitalistic society be a socialists society no matter who is President. So what is the real reason why you guys hate this man. Why don't you just say it and stop beating around the bush? You don't really want a Ni@@a running your country.
8/7 11:48 PM | IP: Logged |
You don't like Republicans and I don't really care for the party system because it just keeps people from having to use their brains when they vote. So we can sort of agree on that.
Let me explain the difference between conservative and liberal ideologies as I heard it from Thomas Sowell (a black man, by the way). Maybe it will help you understand. It made a lot of sense to me.
- The liberal premise is that they just want to help people. They believe that humans are good, not flawed, and that if you create the perfect system of government then you can have a wonderful society and everyone will work hard and have free healthcare, college, and retirement provided by the system. It will work if you just help everyone who needs helps.
- The conservative premise is that humans are flawed and the best you can hope for is to fix some of the problems without creating bigger ones. Conservatives believe that the system should make it possible for people to help themselves because they will do a much better job helping themselves.
Example: Welfare and food stamps solve the problem of keeping people from living in the street and starving but the tradeoff is that it creates GENERATIONS of LAZY PEOPLE who think the government should be responsible for supplying all of their needs. It robs their motivation.
That's why you hear conservatives complaining about welfare and food stamps (even conservatives who are on them). Because they know it's a bad trade overall. If people had the responsibility to provide these things for themselves, they would do a better job of providing housing and food for themselves and it would be less of a drain on society at the same time.
It's the same with healthcare. The healthcare system may be broken, but conservatives don't want to fix it by giving the government more power and raising taxes. That's a bad tradeoff. Liberals feel that if the government will just fix the system everyone will be okay.
On the issue of race, you think that anyone who doesn't want Obama to be president is racist. I know several black people who don't like him, explain that to me.
This post was edited on 8/8 3:45 PM by frogpelt
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Thank you for breaking down the liberal premise and the conservative premise. That makes sense. The problem with those premises is that they are on opposite ends of the spectrum thus forcing people to make a choice. I don't have a problem with republicans when they are willing to disagree with democratic policies or the liberal premise as you stated. But when they start calling the president a food stamp president, hitler, un-american, and things of that nature, I feel they are going beyond disagree with ideals. When your main agenda is to oppose everything the president tries to do, then I feel like you don't care about what happens to working americans, all you care about is making the president look bad.
I strongly disagree with the republican notion that welfare and food stamps robs people of their motivation. Some people just aren't motivated to do better in life. Take away food stamps and welfare and those people that want hand outs will go and commit crimes. Either way, tax payers will have to pay. I grew up in a single family and my grandmother received food stamps. Food stamps aren't enough for people to live a decent life, therefor most people who grow up in poverty desperately want to get out of those circumstances. I wanted have more than my parents, so I went to the military so that I would later be able to afford college. Most of the people that I grew up with that were once on government programs like food stamp are now working and providing for their families. They weren't robbed of their ambitions. I think many republicans don't really understand what it's like to be born in poverty.
Just because you disagree with Obama doesn't mean that your a racist. But when a group of people say he's a marxist, a terrorist, a socialist, not american, not a christian, and other obscene things about this man that aren't true, you have to wonder where this comes from. I have never heard a president be disrespected like President Obama. Anybody who doesn't like President Obama never have valid reasons for why they don't like him. Everybody has a right to their own opinion but lets call it what it is. I have been treated or judged unfairly because of my skin, so I know exactly what it looks like. A lot of republicans use code words to describe what they really think. I'm just saying, if you don't like him have some balls and say why you really don't like him. Don't say its about Obamacare. Because the same people that dislike Obama because of his healthcare plan will go vote for Mitt Romney knowing that Obamacare was designed after Mitt Romney's health care plan. So, if it's that bad then why don't these same people dislike Mitt Romney?
As far as republicans not liking Obamacare because they feel it puts a burden on our country, so why have tax breaks for wealthy people and corporations. Tax cuts for wealthy people and corporations is welfare for the rich.
This post was edited on 8/8 10:56 AM by BigSpeet
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The name-calling has increased through the years for every president. I wouldn't call Obama "Hitler" but I am not afraid to compare any leader to any other figure in history if there is grounds for comparison. Some of the people calling him those names are just trying to express that they don't want him to be president, whether they have a good reason or not.
On the other hand, there are people who really believe that Obama gets a lot of his ideas from Marxist notions, which if you feel those are in opposition to the founding fathers' ideas you might call it "un-American".
And lastly, another way to think about tax cuts for the rich is fewer taxes overall. People who think the government is not the best way to solve problems also think that fewer taxes are better. So, conservatives aren't necessarily in favor of "Tax cuts for the rich", they're just in favor of fewer taxes.
This post was edited on 8/8 3:59 PM by frogpelt
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The only problem with tax-cuts for everybody is that the money has to come from somewhere. When you cut taxes on anybody, especially now that we have this huge deficit, we have to make up that loss of revenue. Whether it comes in the form of cuts in military, cuts in medicaid, cuts in government jobs (teachers, fire fighters, police officers, government officials, etc. The money has to come from somewhere and I think a lot of people don't understand that.
8/9 1:05 AM | IP: Logged |
I agree that is a problem. Many people just don't want the cuts, even people who are for the cuts in principle are against cuts that directly affect them (which causes me to question their principles).
A flat tax would be an interesting concept because it would almost rid us of the need for the IRS completely. It would also drastically simplify the tax code and accountants could help us in areas of personal finance and saving for retirement.
The bottom line is that with a $20 Trillion debt and more government programs being created every day somebody is going to have to pay. We are either going to have to cut drastically or raise taxes drastically--maybe both.
People do not want to experience pain NOW. They always want to put it off.
8/10 1:16 PM | IP: Logged |
I agree.
8/10 1:31 PM | IP: Logged |
I am a registered republican and I am far from rich. I am for a fisically conservative form of government. I do not belive that its the gov'ts job to provide for my needs, thus I don't feel like it is my job to provide my hard earned money in the form of taxes to support some one elses family. Now before you start to go off on me that i dont care about my fellow man. I give more than 10k a year to local charities to help the less fortunate and volunteer countless hours.
As for as taxes go weather you are rich or poor the amount of money it takes for your gov't services are the same for each person. So why should a man that makes 250k a year pay higher percentage in taxes than a guy that makes 50k a year.
He is still going to pay more. but the virtue of the amount of income he makes.
But until we overhaul the personal and corp tax codes this debate is going to continue. I am a small business owner(charter boat) between the amount of regulation and the taxes I have to pay the govt is running me out of business.
If this continues I am going to shut down retire move to a island in central Am and let someone else try to figure out how to pay for all the give away programs.
9/12 4:45 PM | IP: Logged |
Originally posted by BigSpeet:
It blows my mind that any person who is in the middle class would want to be a republican. You regurgitate whatever you heard on Fox News about Obama, but when it comes down to it, he is trying to help people like us…that is if you guys are middle class people. But I guess everybody on this board is a millionaire. The proof is in the pudding (or policies in this case). Most republicans want to get rid of regulations, continue tax breaks for big businesses and the wealthy, and cut programs like medicare. How in the world can any middle class person believe that the republican party is looking out for their best interest? I hear everybody bashing Obamacare, but never say anything about the same program that was successful when Mitt Romney was gov. Obamacare or the Affordable Care Act was patterned after what Mitt Romney did in Massachusetts to make healthcare more affordable. Who doesn't want more affordable healthcare. We already pay taxes so that when people who don't have insurance get seen when they go to the emergency room. Why is that you guys hate the President so much? He is not a Socialist, and never will our capitalistic society be a socialists society no matter who is President. So what is the real reason why you guys hate this man. Why don't you just say it and stop beating around the bush? You don't really want a Ni@@a running your country.
This is a sad post. This is a tribute to our pathetic educational system. Please study European and American history.....It's probably too late for you....
Big government is your solution....SAD....
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PS.....See my reply below.....
9/12 10:18 PM | IP: Logged |
You sound like an article in the Atlantic. Surely you read it.
You seem to be the one bringing up the "N" word, not the Republicans.
As for calling one party Hitler, you need to research the Democratic convention. During the convention week, three Democrats called or referred to Republicans as Hitler or Nazi's. You defintely got that one backwards.
As for the rest of this, I gave up reading it. Maybe later with more comments.
9/13 1:00 PM | IP: Logged |
And you msnbc...
9/23 11:21 PM | IP: Logged |
All republicans are either rich or stupid... it is gonna be one or the other...
The only ones who stand to gain from the current GOP agenda are the rich ones...
The middle class or poor will lose with the current GOP agenda, if you vote against your own interests you are stupid...
The funny part is I am rich, and a republican... but I am an American first and I hate to see uneducated voting more than my agenda...
9/26 10:26 PM | IP: Logged |
I'm a Republican for three reasons:
1) GOP values personal responsibility
2) Republicans consider the fiscal impact of entitlements/new programs. I'm not convinced Democrats ever do this.
3) We're already broke. We're borrowing money from China to pay for an expanding government. I am 23 years old. My paychecks will inevitably get smaller and smaller as we pay for programs that get larger and larger. There aren't enough super-wealthy people in the country to tax to make up for this and it would be ill-advised anyway. Democrats won't even discuss entitlement reform.
The real question isn't why I should be a Republican, that's pretty obvious to me. The real question is "why should I be a Democrat?" As a hard-working, independent person, what could the Democrats possibly offer to me?
P.S. All said and done, I probably have about $400 of monthly disposable income after taxes, bills, etc, and I live in one of the most expensive cities in the country. That $400 doesn't stretch far.
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OP...I understand why poor people vote Dem.....why is it so hard for you to understand why rich people vote Rep?
My cliff notes on Dems are that you want, expect, and demand government to take care of any gaps you have in your life.
Rep....just want folks to take personal responsibilty and when things do not go perfect figure it out yourself or go to your church and leave my wallet out of it.
10/4 5:33 PM | IP: Logged |
Originally posted by frogpelt:
You don't like Republicans and I don't really care for the party system because it just keeps people from having to use their brains when they vote. So we can sort of agree on that.
Let me explain the difference between conservative and liberal ideologies as I heard it from Thomas Sowell (a black man, by the way). Maybe it will help you understand. It made a lot of sense to me.
- The liberal premise is that they just want to help people. They believe that humans are good, not flawed, and that if you create the perfect system of government then you can have a wonderful society and everyone will work hard and have free healthcare, college, and retirement provided by the system. It will work if you just help everyone who needs helps.
- The conservative premise is that humans are flawed and the best you can hope for is to fix some of the problems without creating bigger ones. Conservatives believe that the system should make it possible for people to help themselves because they will do a much better job helping themselves.
Example: Welfare and food stamps solve the problem of keeping people from living in the street and starving but the tradeoff is that it creates GENERATIONS of LAZY PEOPLE who think the government should be responsible for supplying all of their needs. It robs their motivation.
That's why you hear conservatives complaining about welfare and food stamps (even conservatives who are on them). Because they know it's a bad trade overall. If people had the responsibility to provide these things for themselves, they would do a better job of providing housing and food for themselves and it would be less of a drain on society at the same time.
It's the same with healthcare. The healthcare system may be broken, but conservatives don't want to fix it by giving the government more power and raising taxes. That's a bad tradeoff. Liberals feel that if the government will just fix the system everyone will be okay.
On the issue of race, you think that anyone who doesn't want Obama to be president is racist. I know several black people who don't like him, explain that to me.
This post was edited on 8/8 3:45 PM by frogpelt
I'm sure you've already been corrected, but your explanation of conservative vs liberal premises is the exact opposite of reality. As proposed by James Madison, if one believes humans are innately good, there is no need for government, therefore, it is the liberal who believes humans are flawed.
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Wow really? Well I will tell u this. I am middle class and I have a small business . How can I hire another person when my taxes might go up 8 or 9 thousand a year. How can I pay these health care cost which have already doubled in the last 4 years. How is it fair for my small business to pay 108K just in federal tax? Bottom line my business does 300 K a year. I have two employees. After I pay them and the taxes and health care cost I net less than 60K a year. So that is helping us all? Go get a damn job!!
10/4 6:29 PM | IP: Logged |
Originally posted by Addie:
Originally posted by BigSpeet:
It blows my mind that any person who is in the middle class would want to be a republican. You regurgitate whatever you heard on Fox News about Obama, but when it comes down to it, he is trying to help people like us…that is if you guys are middle class people. But I guess everybody on this board is a millionaire. The proof is in the pudding (or policies in this case). Most republicans want to get rid of regulations, continue tax breaks for big businesses and the wealthy, and cut programs like medicare. How in the world can any middle class person believe that the republican party is looking out for their best interest? I hear everybody bashing Obamacare, but never say anything about the same program that was successful when Mitt Romney was gov. Obamacare or the Affordable Care Act was patterned after what Mitt Romney did in Massachusetts to make healthcare more affordable. Who doesn't want more affordable healthcare. We already pay taxes so that when people who don't have insurance get seen when they go to the emergency room. Why is that you guys hate the President so much? He is not a Socialist, and never will our capitalistic society be a socialists society no matter who is President. So what is the real reason why you guys hate this man. Why don't you just say it and stop beating around the bush? You don't really want a Ni@@a running your country.
This is a sad post. This is a tribute to our pathetic educational system. Please study European and American history.....It's probably too late for you....
Big government is your solution....SAD....
Agreed Addie. The OP is too far out to sea for a lifeline to do any good. Its funny how he writes about republicans only doing the talking points of Fox News. Thats an easy conclusion considering that every other News outlet on TV has become the guard dogs of the democrat party and more specifically, this current administration. Its unfair to label democrats as stupid because they're not. They're merely ignorant from believing the propaganda the lapdog media has spewed on the masses for so long. Maybe Fox News....who has viewpoints given from strategists from both sides...can continue to help educate those that have been infected for decades with spoiled news. In time those lost souls can drift closer into shore to be saved.
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Im 40 years old, my wife doesnt work, and I make a little over $50K a year. We live a pretty simple (but very happy) life. Im Conservative, and the Republican Party most resembles my values. I didnt say the Party MIRRORS my values, but MOST RESEMBLES them.
10/4 10:37 PM | IP: Logged |
I am in a business where I see a lot of people who depend on the government for income. It blows my mind to have them come in my office, and spend their money (money that you and I pay for them to have) on things that are so far from essential to living that it is sad. They talk about going to to play the slots in Mississippi all the time and renting a car to get there. We ask for utility bills to verify their address. This is not an exaggeration, 70% of the bills I am handed have large past dues on them. So I see people on a daily basis that use the money the government gives them and blows it on stupid things, and they havent paid their water or power bill in months. Meanwhile, I am paying taxes and about $395/month for health insurance that covers my wife, my child, and myself. So its hard for me to believe in a president/government that wants me to pay more so that people can take my money and be irresponsible citizens. I also have friends that have spoken about trying to have more babies so that they can get more money on their governemnt check. Then when tax time comes around they talk about claiming other people's children as dependants. Its not a good system and the current president seems to want to further enable people to "mooch" off of the rest of us. I would like to retire one day. Im 28 years old and I may retire when Im 75 if this keeps heading in this direction.
10/5 2:09 PM | IP: Logged |
Bottom line, though, is that all Democrats are retarded, brainless fools who can't think for themselves. Many Republicans are as well and just happen to have been steered correctly, but having a functioning brain precludes one from voting Democrat.
10/9 9:42 PM | IP: Logged |
The government could confiscate all of the wealth from the top 10% and it would not be enough to run the government for 1 year. Lowering taxes stimulates growth including job creation. Economic growth is the only solution to the debt other than rampant inflation that makes the dollar worth less. The "it must come from somewhere " approach never works. If you over tax the rich guy who buys the luxury yacht he just stops buying the yacht and puts the middle class worker who builds the boat out of work.
This post was edited on 10/16 3:41 PM by greatbb
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More money in wallets boost the economy, cause momma likes to shop and buy stuff. Does that help the democrats figure out how tax cuts work? Oh yeah, and someone may get a job that ain't had one in 4 yrs. There is more than one way to collect taxes than add 10% on the wealthy. To fix the budget, we could could do a 3% raise across the board and solve some of it. But gov'ts over spending has to stop.
10/21 9:35 PM | IP: Logged |
Shut your mouth op! If he gets the job done i could care less what color he is.
10/23 6:43 AM | IP: Logged |
I have 3 part time employees who work about 35 hours a week. I use to make sure they were under 40 so they wouldnt be considered full time. Without beng full time they do not recieve an employer match with a 401k, medical benefits, or profit sharing. Now full time is considered to be averaging 25 hours a week (which is a joke because I work 50+ and 25 hours a week would seem like a vacation to me). It would add an additional $800 per employee a month to offer full time benefits to them. What Im getting at is this, like all systems you can twist it and make it sound good for both sides of the issue. These part time guys will now have benefits which would be great or them. However, I have to run a profitable business. So what am I going to do? Instead of them working 35 hours a week, I am going to lower their hours to 24 a week. Which at $10 an hour is going to cut their pay $450 a month roughly. I will hire another part time employee to make up the difference for the hours they lose. So a job gets created! Oh but wait, now 3 guys are bringing home a lot less money and another guy gets a job working 24 hours a week. In the end, I will have the same amount of money being paid to employees and no more money going back into the economy. All some of these policies do is move numbers around. Employment goes up, but how much more actual money will be in the hands of consumers? Now I have 3 guys with a lot less disposable income, if they had any to begin with.
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Anyone that votes just because of the party the person a member of is nuts.IMO neither party cares about the avg. person. Before you vote for a man ask this question. What has he done when he wasn't running for an election because they all lie. Do research your self that way you know. But IMO obama has done nothing to help me or my family and nor did I sit around at home waiting for him to
10/23 10:53 PM | IP: Logged |
I do not vote party lines. I am on the conservative side but don't mind paying a little more for things as long as the money is not being wasted. That's were the problem comes in with this president. He has wasted more money on this green energy shit than any other president. Also why does every one not have pay taxes. God did not say your poor so you do not have to give your 10%. Everyone should pay cause everyone uses roads, schools, ect. Also there is enough energy in this country that we should be exporting oil. coal, natural gas to other country's but due to regulations it cost to much to get it. We need to use our resources to be self sufficient and we are not doing it. He made promise's, specific promise's, that he has not kept. He said himself that if he did not cut the debt in half he should be a one term president. So let's vote his ass out not because he is black but because he has failed to deliver what he promised the american people. (sing star spangled banner)
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Originally posted by bigdaddy800:
I do not vote party lines. I am on the conservative side but don't mind paying a little more for things as long as the money is not being wasted. That's were the problem comes in with this president. He has wasted more money on this green energy shit than any other president. Also why does every one not have pay taxes. God did not say your poor so you do not have to give your 10%. Everyone should pay cause everyone uses roads, schools, ect. Also there is enough energy in this country that we should be exporting oil. coal, natural gas to other country's but due to regulations it cost to much to get it. We need to use our resources to be self sufficient and we are not doing it. He made promise's, specific promise's, that he has not kept. He said himself that if he did not cut the debt in half he should be a one term president. So let's vote his ass out not because he is black but because he has failed to deliver what he promised the american people. (sing star spangled banner)
Thanks, BD...Made my day!
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I am a small business owner and am a long way from being rich. I get up everyday and go to work. I think President Obama is a great guy, would love to watch a game with him, but I do not believe his policies are the best for our country. Our military needs more support than the Democrats care to give. I am tired of this let's help the poor guy ... tell the POOR guy to get off his butt and go to work. Every week I have at least 5 people come in asking me to sign their paperwork indicating they have asked about work .... but they tell you "I just need you to sign the paper" when I ask them to fill out an application most tell me they do not have the time.
Neither of the men has all the answers but I have already voted and President Obama did not get my vote.
11/4 6:18 AM | IP: Logged |
I post this as a middle class American military member. I vote mostly Republican, not totally, because they most resemble my personal and moral beliefs. Economically, I tend to lean more towards a flat tax with no deductions. I don't believe that Bill Gates should have to pay more of a tax percentage than me simply because he makes more and did whatever it took to get there. I believe the Fed Government has grown entirely too large and social entitlement programs have, with few exceptions, decayed the work ethic in this country and subsequently our foundation. As for the race issue, I am white/black/Hawaiian, get over it.
11/6 9:00 PM | IP: Logged |
Me, personally, I dont give 2 sh!ts who is the president, because Im going to provide for me and mines regardless. Most politicians are liars anyway and Im pretty much apathetic. I will say this, as far as race is concerned, there are many blacks who just vote for Obama because he's black and some whites are against him because hes black. Most people cant name you one issue, it just a popularity contest for the most part.
11/6 10:04 PM | IP: Logged |
socialism is great until the other guy's money runs out. Do democrats understand that the money to run the entitlement programs that they love so much is payed by someone, and not by the government? The dollor will continue to fall, as our debt gets bigger. We will have more interest to pay, and will print more money to avoid default. Inflation will cause the dollor to lose buying power. Before long no one will be able to fix our problems. And the poor who have depended on someone else's money will be the first to starve. They will have no skill's to survive. History shows that this happen's to every socialist government.
11/7 5:44 AM | IP: Logged |
Originally posted by DLM205:
Me, personally, I dont give 2 sh!ts who is the president, because Im going to provide for me and mines regardless. Most politicians are liars anyway and Im pretty much apathetic. I will say this, as far as race is concerned, there are many blacks who just vote for Obama because he's black and some whites are against him because hes black. Most people cant name you one issue, it just a popularity contest for the most part.
AGREE DLM!
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Originally posted by BigSpeet:
It blows my mind that any person who is in the middle class would want to be a republican. You regurgitate whatever you heard on Fox News about Obama, but when it comes down to it, he is trying to help people like us…that is if you guys are middle class people. But I guess everybody on this board is a millionaire. The proof is in the pudding (or policies in this case). Most republicans want to get rid of regulations, continue tax breaks for big businesses and the wealthy, and cut programs like medicare. How in the world can any middle class person believe that the republican party is looking out for their best interest? I hear everybody bashing Obamacare, but never say anything about the same program that was successful when Mitt Romney was gov. Obamacare or the Affordable Care Act was patterned after what Mitt Romney did in Massachusetts to make healthcare more affordable. Who doesn't want more affordable healthcare. We already pay taxes so that when people who don't have insurance get seen when they go to the emergency room. Why is that you guys hate the President so much? He is not a Socialist, and never will our capitalistic society be a socialists society no matter who is President. So what is the real reason why you guys hate this man. Why don't you just say it and stop beating around the bush? You don't really want a Ni@@a running your country.
Most ignorant post ever! 
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This post was edited on 12/9 5:33 PM by kansaskansas
12/9 5:24 PM | IP: Logged |
Who brought this back up. You can't help everybody. Good lord.
12/19 7:59 PM | IP: Logged |
It's always seems those most ignorant are the loudest. Also I think most black people are too sensitive about any criticism of BO. That also maybe a normal reaction given our history. I am not rich, I'm independent but have voted republican most always. OP just wait until you're affected by the new healthcare policies and then tell us again how BO is for middle class. It is clear to me that we have been hoodwinked, bamboozled and had the wool pulled. I think BO wants to punish America and redistribute its wealth. RTR
3/21 7:51 AM | IP: Logged |
Low information liberals never fail to amaze me.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
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You're lost. Public school teacher unions have completely destroyed public school, primarily in the inner cities. Democrats have created generational welfare for minorities. Please get your facts straight and get back with me.
4/14 11:15 AM | IP: Logged |
Yahoo! Sports
